TG Summit – 2015

Howdy Pards and Pardettes,

The TG Convention has come and gone. As a club the results of our voting closely matched the voting results from the convention. The only difference was item 4 (removing the MSV for retrieving a dropped round). We passed that and while it did have a majority (63.98%) if failed to me the 66% requirement. It can I hope it will be brought back up next year. If you shoot in the Senior Duelist Category and use adjustable sights you have until December 31st of this year to transition to fixed sight pistols.

Items 1 and 3 will become effective after Winter Range 2015.

Below are the notes from the TG summit as written by Chuckeroo,

The six items will be voted on and in order to pass, they must have a 2/3rds (66%) majority of the vote. Items with less than 2/3rds but more than 50% can be brought back up next year.

1) Should we institute the following standard for all style/costume categories when breaking them down by age?

The regulations for the base category will be applied first; THEN the age limits.

Discussion.

This item deals with non-SASS categories. The question was raised about the entire category structure. This will be added to the discussion items, it is not part of this item.

Clarification that this was not adding new categories but was giving a guideline for clubs that add these type categories and how to establish priority on the category rules.

No other discussion.

 

2) Should we change Senior Duelist to comply with that standard?

If passed it would not take effect until January 2016.

Discussion

A motion was made to make the rule effective in January 2016 (if it should pass). Motion passed to amend question to include January 2016 as effective date. This would give shooters using adjustable sighted guns to replace them with fixed sighted guns.

 

3) Should we officially acknowledge the shooting category “Frontier Cartridge gunfighter” as a SASS sanctioned/recognized category?

The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current “Frontier Cartridge” category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current “Gunfighter” Category.

 

Discussion.

Agreed that Gunfighter rules should rule and black powder would be a second.

Some were against adding another SASS Official category. Again categories as a whole came into the conversation.

It was mentioned that it was too late this year to have FCGF as a category at Winter Range.

4) Should the MSV penalty for retrieving a dropped or ejected round be removed if done SAFELY?

Discussion

It was mentioned that is was legal to pick up dropped rounds in Wild Bunch matches.

In todays competitions there are a lot of tables on stages and it should not be a penalty to pick up a dropped round from the table.

Most people would go back to their ammo belt to get another round and that we already have penalties for a muzzle control safety violation.

It was mentioned that the current rule was to lengthy for not picking up a round.

Should a shooter fall over and all of their shotgun shells all fall out, they will have all misses for shotgun targets.

Some felt that the term “if done safely” is a subjective call and would eventually cause inconsistency in violation calls.

Motion was made to remove “if done safely” from the item description.

Motion carried and the ballot will be modified to remove “if done safely.”

 

5) Should conflicts on costume based shooting categories (“B”-Western Men’s & Ladies and Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl) Costuming requirement determinations be relegated to the Costume Contest personnel/judges? Where the competitors can battle it out in front of a panel of judges instead of bringing costume issues to the attention of Range Masters and Match Directors to decide if a shirt or boots are in compliance with the rules.

Discussion

Why do we need a rule to tell the match director something they already know how to do.

This would create a group that could overrule a match directors authority and remove the judgements away from match directors and the folks responsible for the match.

There are different criteria for shooting costumes and costumes in a costume contest.

Leave this alone was very prevalent.

It was also felt that judges for a categories like Classic Cowboy and B-Western contest should be shooters that participate in those categories. Nobody knows the costume better than those that dress it regularly.

Some felt that smaller shoots could would not have the personnel to create a committee and in turn would be in violation, should this rule pass.

6) Should the Category of Grand Dame have the name changed to “Golden Girls”?

Discussion

Some thought it had a “Sitcom” feel. In honor of Betty White.

One clubs women shooter felt that Grand Dame had a lot more class and should stay.

One lady TG had signed the original petition to get the named changed but has decided, after additional consideration that Grand Dame is more appropriate.

There was much support for keeping it as it is. Many clubs members were not in support of this change

 

NON VOTING DISCUSSION ITEMS:

*Discussion Items are not on the ballot for action. Discussion & Clarification only at this time.

Discuss the increasing incidents of “Shooting on the move”, its implications, and safety concerns.

Discussion

Hipshot – Do we want to encourage shooting on the move?

Some felt that there are lots of things within the rules that some people cannot do safely.

Some see having one foot on the ground is safe enough.

Move o the go is OK if you are capable of it. Others some ranges are unsafe to shoot while on the move.

Many felt it would add to much for the RO to watch and control.

Comment made that this was something that the Wild Bunch should decide.

Hipshot – Stage writing can control this, from a safety perspective.

Strongly felt that shooting while firing was not what we want. Movement between rounds fired is something else.

Even if this were to become an agenda item, stages can be written that movement o the run is not in the stage description.

It ain’t broke, don’t fix it, was a common thread.

Many felt that people play the game based on the existing rules. Changing how it is played would not necessarily be in line with why they started shooting Cowboy in the first place.

 

Discuss the possibility and any implications of the shooting category of B-Western/Ladies B-Western’s costuming allowances to be expanded to include silver-screen style type costuming.

Example: Senoritas, Tonto-style, Dale Evans, John Wayne, The Lone Ranger, Miss Kitty, Cisco Kid, etc.

If so, would the category name then need to be changed to be inclusive: “B-Western & Silver Screen”

Discussion

Is a senorita style costume B-Western or not?

This could add silver screen style or Wild West Show clothing to the B-Western category.

This would require modifications to the B-Western costume items or even create a new category all together.

How far back (years) are we going to go with costumes? It’s getting complicated.

It will need some tweaking (rules) before is becomes an agenda item. Look for this in the future.

1:00 PM Adjourn.

 

Friday January 9, 2015

Call to order 09:00 AM

Congratulations to Chuckaroo for induction into the Hall Of Fame last night.

Final discussion item, the rewrite of the closed action rule. The Branson Summit on this issue did not address levers that were left open and empty on purpose, when not by accident. The Wild Bunch changed the 2013 Summit decision and reverted back to the old rule requiring the action to be open, even after it is left to go to the next gun.

A revised rewrite is in progress and the Wild Bunch is looking to make the open lever rule more useable and understandable.

There was much discussion on how to approach the rewrite of the open action rule and comments added during this years summit will be taken into consideration as the RO Committee and the Wild Bunch come to a consensious on how the rule should be worded.

 

Much discussion, that covered many what ifs determined that there was still room for a subjective call on the shooters intent. The more gray areas we have the more subjectivity we can have with some calls. This is not desirable to all parties.

We all agree that the shooter must open the action at some point, in order to clear it. The problem is when the action gets closed for any reason. It was offered that at the end of a stage and there is a closed action the gun must be opened at that location. If there is no round or spent case, it should be a no call.

Hipshot – the Wild Bunch has been opposed to this approach in the past. They feel open means open when the gun is left on the rest after it has been shot. An accidental closing, (a gun rolls over and closes the action) would be a no call.

The Wild Bunch had overruled the decision made in Branson (checking a closed gun at the end of the stage and making a no call on an empty gun). SASS has apologized for the canceling of the rule passed in 2013 but felt that there were problems wit the wording. They are now open to rewording the rule to make it safe, understandable and easy to initiate. No rule is perfect and it is important to make the new rule as bullet proof as possible.

The actual definition of “open in empty” was also questioned and if you have ever been involved in this discussion, you can imagine how difficult it is to make this definition. The SASS definition for this is in the RO1 handbook. Outside of the rule book it is almost impossible to create a firm definition of closed.

Discussion continued to revert to the ruling that was made at the 2013 Summit in Branson. If the firearm has no round in it, it is clear and there is no call.

Misty Moonshine – the Wild Bunch needs input and is still pondering the rule. Additional WB discussion will take place. Does it make sense to change the description from open and empty to just empty? A show of hands (straw pole, non-binding) was strongly in favor or changing the verbiage to left “empty” not “open and empty.”

The resolution will made after joint meetings with the Wild Bunch and the RO Committee. Once decided, it will be effective immediately.

 

Additional open discussion.

Some discussion about the addition of new categories. The extra cost for matches and the cancellation of categories that do not meet a minimum number of participants.

When you add a new category, you are increasing match cost. You are not adding shooters, you are taking a shooter from one category into the new category.

It is not always easy to collapse a category that is under registered. A Silver Senior Lady can be collapsed to Senior Lady lady but the lower tiers of the age based categories have no where to go.

 

Ballots for the 2014 agenda items were distributed. Metting was adjourned.

AGENDA ITEMS VOTE RESULTS

To pass, a 66% majority vote must be obtained.

SASS Territorial Governors Voting January 2015 – San Antonio, Texas

1) Should we institute the following standard for all style/costume categories when breaking them down by age? The regulations for the base category will be applied first; THEN the age limits.

For 86.86% Against 12.71% Abstain .42% PASSED Effective After Winter Range

 

2) Should we change Senior Duelist to comply with that standard?

For 85.59% Against 13.56% Abstain .85% PASSED Effective 01-01-16

3) Should we officially acknowledge the shooting category “Frontier Cartridge gunfighter” as a SASS sanctioned/recognized category?

For 86.02% Against 13.98% Abstain 0% PASSED Effective After Winter Range

4) Should the MSV penalty for retrieving a dropped or ejected round be eliminated.

For 63.98% Against 35.59% Abstain ..42% FAILED

5) Should conflicts on costume based shooting categories (“B”-Western Men’s & Ladies and Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl) Costuming requirement determinations be relegated to the Costume Contest personnel/judges?

For 15.25% Against 74.58% Abstain .10.17% FAILED

6) Should the Category of Grand Dame have the name changed to “Golden Girls”?

For 14.41% Against 81.78% Abstain 3.81% FAILED

Sincerely,

Santa Fe River Stan

Territorial Governor

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